BASEBALL COACHES UNPLUGGED
What if you could discover the secrets of the most successful coaches and athletes and become the best in the game. What separates the best coaches and players from the rest? Become the player coaches dream of having on their team. Step inside the dugout with the Baseball Coaches Unplugged, where every episode is a journey of triumph, resilience, and inspiration. Hosted by Ken Carpenter, a 27 year veteran high school baseball coach with a passion for unlocking the secrets of athletic greatness.
Picture this: you're behind the scenes with top athletes and coaches, taking in their stories of victory and defeat, and uncovering the invaluable life lessons hidden within. From heart-pounding game moments to the quiet struggles of training, each episode offers invaluable of wisdom that resonates with baseball coaches, players, devoted parents and fans alike.
Join us weekly as we explore the highs and lows of the sports world, dissecting success strategies and sharing practical takeaways that you can implement on and off the field. Whether you're seeking to refine your coaching techniques, elevate your game, or simply bask in the camaraderie of fellow sports enthusiasts, the Baseball Coaches Unplugged podcast is your playbook for success.
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BASEBALL COACHES UNPLUGGED
MLB Manager Clint Hurdle on Coaching and Communication with Today's Baseball Players
Ever wondered how a Major League Baseball manager uses intentional ejections to boost team morale? Clint Hurdle, former manager of the Colorado Rockies and Pittsburgh Pirates, shares a treasure trove of stories from his illustrious career, combining humor and wisdom in equal measure. Join us as Clint reveals how his unexpected role in homeschooling his children during the COVID-19 pandemic helped him reconnect with his family in ways he never anticipated. This section is filled with heartfelt moments and amusing anecdotes that will make you both laugh and reflect.
Curious about what it takes to be an effective coach for young athletes today? Clint and I break down the essentials of concise communication and active listening, offering practical advice for making practice sessions tougher than games to build resilience. We dive into the evolving interests of modern athletes and discuss how to help them find their passion for the game amidst numerous distractions. This chapter is a goldmine for anyone involved in coaching or mentoring young players, offering actionable tips and insights that can make a real difference.
What does it mean to be coachable in today’s analytically-driven sports landscape? Clint provides a fascinating look at balancing new-age analytics with old-school values, sharing his experiences and lessons learned. We also tackle the challenges faced by small market teams and propose innovative solutions to level the playing field. Wrapping up with reflections on the emotional aspects of coaching, Clint shares why he prefers the love of winning over the hatred of losing. This episode is packed with professional reflections, personal anecdotes, and valuable lessons from a life dedicated to baseball. Don't miss out on these unique insights from one of the sport's most engaging personalities.
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Speaker 2:Well, I'll give you a funny one and I'll leave the umpire's name out of it, but I think I always get drawn to this one because, you know, some people would ask me well, as a manager, did you ever get thrown out on purpose? Did you ever go out there and try and stir up your team or make a stand or do this? And I'll say, you know, yes, there were times when maybe I wanted to spark some energy or light a fuse. You know the male testosterone thing or the ego gets involved. We weren't playing well. We'd had the same crew for four games. It was a four-game series, the last of the four days. Every game we got thrown a beating. We didn't pitch it, we didn't hit it, we couldn't catch it In the fourth game. I've had enough, I've seen enough and I walked.
Speaker 3:You're locked in to Athlete One, a podcast for athletes and coaches Coming to you from Dublin, ohio, here to bring you expert advice, insightful conversations and powerful stories from guests who play or coach sports. Now veteran high school baseball coach and someone who has jumped out of perfectly good airplanes your host Ken.
Speaker 1:Carpenter. Hello and welcome to Athlete One. I'm your host, ken Carpenter, excited to have you with us for season two of our show. And today's guest is a special one, someone I've been working quite some time to get on the show, and it's Clint Hurdle, former manager of the Colorado Rockies and the Pittsburgh Pirates and had a great major league career as a player. Before we get to the episode, I'd like to ask a favor of you, the listener If you could please check out our website. It's athlete1.net, that's athlete1.net, that's athlete1.net and click on leave a review. If you leave us a review, it helps us to grow the show and I love reading and getting all the feedback that we get from our listeners. Also, today's episode of the Athlete One podcast is powered by the netting professionals, improving programs one facility at a time.
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Speaker 3:That's athlete the number onenet.
Speaker 1:This is the athlete one podcast now to my sit down with former major league manager of the colorado rockies and pittsburgh pirates, clint hurdle, and stay till the end to hear the rest of his ejection story. Hello and welcome to the Athlete One podcast. I'm your host, ken Carpenter, and I'm excited to have me have on today's show not only a great person but also someone who's spent 45 years either playing or managing in the Major League Baseball, and joining me today is Clint Hurdle. Mr Hurdle, thank you very much for taking the time to join me on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Ken, you're welcome. I'm glad we were able to pull this together. I'm not quite technologically savvy as most people, so it took me a while to work through it. Thanks for your patience.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm in the same boat, so no need to apologize. Well, you retired after managing the Pirates, and what keeps you busy now in retirement?
Speaker 2:Well, I had two years of gainful retirement. What I mean by that is the first time in my life I was actually paid to not work. That's how bad. The Pirates didn't want me back managing that ball club. They were willing to pay me to not manage the ball club. So I took two years off.
Speaker 2:I had two children my wife and I, carla, have a Madison and Christian. They were both still in high school. So I thought it'd be a good time for me to make an adjustment, plug back into the family full time which is something that had never happened before and see how it went. Well, I decided to try and retire November 15th 2019, and then the rest of the world retired with me on March 15th 2020 when COVID hit. So my first biggest task in my retirement was to take on the challenge of homeschooling two teenagers. My wife I don't think she's failed at anything in her life other than homeschooling. She tried it one year when I was a hitting coach in Texas. We were in Arizona she tried to homeschool the kids and it went horribly for everybody. And she told me back then if there's ever a homeschooling opportunity again, I'm out, you will have to do it. And I'm thinking, well, yeah, sure, I'll do it because that's never going to happen. So, yeah, I'll do it because that's never going to happen. So, yeah, I'll take down that responsibility. Well, lo and behold, it landed in my lap. I got to homeschool two teenagers, one in the morning from about 9 until 12, and the other one from 1 to 3. And we did that for three or four months until school ran out. And then I just found my way to plug back into the family. Whether it's going to my daughter's dance recitals, whether it's going to my daughter's dance recitals, whether it was going to play family bingo up at the center where we live on the Island, whether it was to watch my son in his sport of passion crew row the boat. Be there for my wife. We did some exercise classes together. We just spent time together. I actually enjoyed it for two years.
Speaker 2:And then, I want to say in 2021, in the winter, bill Schmidt, who was the interim general manager of the Rockies, got the full-time job and he asked me to come back and help in player development. I had spent all my career in player development. Bill's background was in scouting. He was our scouting director for over 20 years with the Rockies. He asked me to come back and help in the minor leagues and I said well, that's funny, you should ask that because really that's the only really position or opportunity I'd have any interest in back in baseball now is to work with kids, to work with young managers, young coaches.
Speaker 2:So I moved upon that opportunity. They gave me a little fancy title of a special assistant to the general manager and now I am doing special assistant stuff for the general manager. I'm in Redding Pennsylvania right now watching our AA team, the Hartford Goats, play. I spend a week with each affiliate. I do it two weeks a month so I still have two weeks at home and I'm just probably one of the best jobs I ever had. It just took me 45 years to get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go. Well, do you miss putting the uniform back on?
Speaker 2:You know there's, I don't, I only put the uniform on. It's about for one one, two day period, or actually almost one day a year. I manage one of the clubs for the Perfect Game All-American Classic, the showcase operation Perfect Game. They run a big showcase, a national showcase that I'm in street clothes for Khakis, a golf shirt and a hat or a visor, but I do put on a uniform to manage one of the teams. It's usually the East team. I don't miss it where it gnaws at me, where it bites on me.
Speaker 2:Um, I and I felt in my role that once I got outside uh, the aspect of managing or coaching that it was much more unassuming to show up at a facility or stand on a batting cage in khakis and a golf shirt or Hawaiian shirt rather than me in uniform. And just sometimes it's not so much that I'm worried, but just some people have a hard time seeing you as the person and they see you as a title. Well, he managed, he did this. What's he doing here? Oh, he's going to. He's here to fix all these things. I want to come up and just show up and be present, to use my eyes and ears, watch what goes on, be a voice of reason if need be, share some information if asked. But the uniform thing I thought it might be good separation for me to get away from that, so it doesn't. I've got a bunch of them hanging in the closet back at home, so if I ever need one I can go get one.
Speaker 1:There you go. Well, I grew up about a about an hour or so from Pittsburgh in eastern Ohio and, um, I could, I can recall going to because that was close for me. I was a I was an Indians fan. Now it's the Guardians but but if I wanted to go to a major league game, that was the quickest way to to. To go to a game is just drive up to Pittsburgh and catch a game. Back in the early 80s I guess you could say so. It was always fun just getting up there to see the. The park isn't like it is now. It was the old stadium, but what a great park they have there in Pittsburgh now.
Speaker 2:It is a beautiful ballpark. Pnc Field is magnificent when the sun sets and you get the sun reflection or the sunset reflections off those buildings across the rivers. It's so well put together. It's very intimate. Through the years 2013 through 2015,. It was packed up every home game. We were filling it up around then for about 2.5 million people. I think that's capacity that all it can hold. I could probably hold more. If you do 81 times 38, you're going to get more than that, but we were packing it. It was so much fun. It was so much fun for the fans long-suffering fans, fan base there. But there's a lot of good baseball in that Rust Belt that you live on. Whether it's.
Speaker 2:Cleveland, cincinnati, detroit. You know a lot of teams Pittsburgh's playing. There's a lot of teams on the Rust Belt. I kind of grew up Detroit when I grew up outside of Detroit. That's what we called it and I think that's one of the things that added to the lure of baseball. The fan base for Pittsburgh is you got people coming from West Virginia, you got people coming from Ohio, you got people coming from Eastern PA, which is much different than Western PA, but it was a fun fan base. It was a beautiful ballpark and we gave it everything. We had trying to get that six world series title and we weren't able to do that but we got back into some playoff baseball. So we we were able to rebond the city with the baseball team.
Speaker 1:And that, so we were able to rebond the city with the baseball team and that was one of my goals coming in. Well, I wanted to. You know, since a lot of my listeners are high school slash college, you know coaches and players and parents of those areas how important is it to be coachable.
Speaker 2:I think it's one of the most important traits we can have as we walk through life. And you know, I won't say from six to 66, because six it's hard to coach anybody that they're six, and I don't mean that in a bad way. They're six. You know they're distracted easily and they're kids, they need to be six. My son was probably the perfect example when I was fired by Colorado in 2009, my son started t-ball at the age of four and I can remember just going out watching practice as a four-year-old trying to play t-ball. It was like her and cats. I would continue to encourage the coaches that.
Speaker 2:I'm not so sure how much of a teacher you need to be right now, but I think a storyteller and a communicator is going to be your best two strengths, because it's to keep the kids engaged Now, as kids get older and they start playing, you know, and maybe a little bit more of a meaningful way, and they get their teenage years Even.
Speaker 2:some kids now are playing competitive baseball, the ages you know, eight to 10, but coachability is critical. I think we all should find a place to want to be a lifelong learner. I'm at the age of 66 right now and I'm still looking for ways to learn.
Speaker 2:There's different blogs I read. There's different podcasts I listen to. There's different books I'm reading. I continually want to stretch and grow and get outside my comfort zone. I've learned a lot being outside the game now for the past four years and not wearing a uniform and not being in the vacuum every day and in the limelight, but now with more opportunity, working with kids in amateur ball and actually working with our young players here.
Speaker 2:Coachability is critical and I think one of the best tools I've learned along the way for young players is if I think I'm going to coach somebody and whether it's a small group that I'm talking with or it's a one-on-one opportunity I have with a young player, I let them know right up front.
Speaker 2:Okay, we're going to have a little conversation. The conversations can't be long because the younger the kids is, the time span, the attention span is short. But I would say, when I'm done sharing what I think is important for you today, I want you to give me one or two things you heard me say Because, ken, unfortunately so many times in my career I've thought, I thought I've, I've shared this brilliant message, this critical technique, a certain mechanic that I've kind of helped put together and we're going to deploy today with our hitters or our pitchers, and these kids are nodding their head, shaking their head, yeah, yeah yeah, they're going.
Speaker 2:I can't wait for this old man to shut up. That's what they're saying themselves. And then when they get done, they hear what I said. And then three days later I have three visits.
Speaker 2:So one of the tools that I use with young people is that when I share, I try and keep it short. I try and be clear, clean, accurate with my delivery, get it in, get it out. I have a friend who calls it be brief and be bright and then ask them back what they heard, because they calls it be brief and be bright and then ask them back what they heard because they might not have heard the six points that I had. They might have heard two of them, which is a win if they heard one of them. It's a win to expect them to remember all six. I actually try and work in threes, no more than three things that I try and teach any child, any youngster, any older player. And then I ask what do you hear me say? If they got nothing, okay, we're going to revisit it. Once they have to do that again, they're going to listen much better the next time because they know the old man ain't going to let them go until I give him something back. So the importance of coachability critical.
Speaker 1:If you were a high school player today with the talent you had, what would you tell yourself to get the most out of your ability?
Speaker 2:It would be trust the reps. Work as hard as you can in practice so you can actually play in the game. Most of us have done it backwards. Practice is easier than the game and I learned this from Steve Kerr, the head coach with the Warriors. Now he talked about one of the most challenging parts of his career was their team wasn't playing well and Phil Jackson came up with a new scheme. He was going to scrimmage. They were going to scrimmage, you know, four days a week, which in the NBA you do scrimmage, but it's short incremental bursts and you stop Football. You know you have pad day Hockey, they have skate-arounds.
Speaker 2:Baseball was the one sport that was the last one to the table about trying to regauge game speed in practice opportunities. You know it was old coaches. Throw BP 50 miles an hour. Try and throw it at the sweet spot. You hit them nice little fungos where all their good hops. Nothing's done at game speed in practice for baseball in many years.
Speaker 2:When I played so a speaker said Phil Jackson told me that this week I was going to cover Michael Jordan. He said I wanted to throw up in my mouth. I don't think he said that, but I knew he had to feel it. And he said, after going through that process for a while, come game time, no matter who I got to play against or had to cover, it was easier. The games became easy because practice was so hard. So the one thing I would tell myself at young club hurdle would be kid, find a way to make practice harder. So the and trust the reps once you get in the game, because so many times these kids do work hard at practice, but when they get in the game it's a different mindset. The game becomes way too important more than the practice, and they lose focus of what they were doing throughout the week. They were creating an opportunity to be successful in the game. So trust your reps and make practice harder.
Speaker 1:I had players toward the, I want to say back in 2016,. We were putting together a program to hand out for the parents and the people that came to the game and just a simple assignment was I had the players fill out and ask in the questions and one of the questions was what's your favorite MLB team? And I was astonished that I had three players on my high school team. They were like I don't watch high school, I don't watch Major League Baseball, I don't have a favorite team, and you know. I know it's important that you have to get out and play the game, but I think there's a lot can be taken away from just sitting down and watching how the best in the world do it. And you know what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:Well, no, I don't disagree, but I got to remind myself, ken, these kids aren't me and the generation of kids. Every generation has complained about the generation that's coming up behind them. It's just what we do, and I can't expect kids to have the same interest that I did. I mean, I collected baseball cards. Ask how many of your players collect baseball cards. Nowadays, old men and old grown people collect baseball cards more than kids. Now it's become a collectible hobby.
Speaker 2:There's money tied to it. But in the bad cards, the cards like if I got a card of me right now, my card would be on my spokes on my bicycle. I'd take that clothespin and put the baseball card on there to make my bike sound like it had a motor. I understand what you're saying with watching games. I think it's good opportunities for them to watch other people play the game and they may find something they're attracted to, a style of play, an energy of play. They'll also see things that they're not attracted to. Well, that kid's got no energy or that team's got no energy. That team doesn't hustle, that team doesn't run balls out. So I do believe there's an important factor of it. I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker. If they don't have a favorite team, maybe they have a favorite team in another sport. I don't know if you ask them baseball specifically, but maybe they have a favorite team, but it's a different sport. Maybe that's an avenue to go. I mean, I grew up a Detroit Tiger fan. I was a fan of every Detroit team. I still am to this day. Al Kaline was my guy.
Speaker 2:The kids today they have so many distractions and it's not their fault. They have those distractions. I think what we can help along the way with is eliminating some distractions for them and truly just trying to help them find if you're playing baseball, why do you play them. Find if you're playing baseball, why do you play? Do you love the game? Um, is it something to keep you, your parents want you to do, to get you out of the house? I mean, what's the why behind your playing? And then try and work with them on their why so you love the game? Have you thought about practicing a little more? Did you ever think about playing summer ball or a travel ball? Or do you ever watch a game on tv, then go there? Or how about the junior college down the street? Have you ever watched them play? Just different questions, different ways to try and plug them into something that they may have a love for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely I you know, as, as a manager, what was your way of connecting with with the younger players that were either with the Pirates or the Rockies, or even in your experience with minor leagues.
Speaker 2:It's fortunate. Well, I've got a son who's 19, first year in college. I do have a young adult daughter, maddie's 21. Maddie was born with a birth defect. She has special needs, so I've had to learn to communicate in a special needs community as well. And you know, most of the times all parents go through the situation when they have kids at home and if you don't give a kid a good answer to a question, their next question is why and why and why you learn to give a good answer. Well, even within Maddie at the age of 21 now, and in her group and her community, if you don't give a good answer you get a lot of why. So it's helped me think it group and her community. If you don't give a good answer, you get a lot of why. So it's helped me think, it's helped me process my answer before I give it. But I've also been able to find out. I have an older daughter, ashley, that's 38, that has helped me with my cues.
Speaker 2:I try and find coins with these young kids, ken, and what I mean by coin is a hobby. What do they like to do when they're not playing ball? It may be a musician, it may be. They like dogs, some kids like to hunt, some kids like to fish, some girls like dance, they like music, whatever it may be. I look for those opportunities. Connect with them on something outside of the sport we're connected to. So every time they see me walking to them they think, oh God, here comes coach, it's going to be something about baseball, we're going to talk about baseball. I hope that I can develop a relationship with him. When they see me walking through them, they go oh my gosh, I wonder what he's going to ask me today. You know he's always got a different topic that we talk about.
Speaker 2:Or then you find a couple topics they really like to talk about, then all you usually have to do, ken, you ask them one question and they take it and run with it and they talking, which is the best way to develop that relationship. I try and stay young, I try and stay current, but I don't want to be fake about it either. There's some things that kids are interested in today that I have no interest in. I've never been a gamer. My game was pong. I played pinball. I'm not a gamer, and a lot of these kids play game, whether it's Madden, I get it, but that's not somewhere I'm going to go because I have no interest in that. But I have no interest in that, but I have no experience in it either. So I want to make sure I'm authentic and I'm real in the conversation of what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:That makes total sense. And you know, a challenge that a lot of high school coaches are facing nowadays is their approach to not only their players but the parents that they're having to to work with. And if you were given the assignment of coaching a high school baseball team, how do you, how would you go about getting the players to buy in, which that would probably be the easier part, but also to get the parents to buy in, even if it's the parent whose kid who isn't getting a lot of playing time?
Speaker 2:No, that is probably one of your biggest areas where you can become more impactful or less impactful. The parent buy-in. And you know the parents. They're not going to go away. They're connected to their kids. They're more often than not going to have an inflated evaluation of the talent level that their child has because they're parents. Some of them don't, but a lot of them do.
Speaker 2:I think the best thing I would do is try and have maybe what they used to call those fireside chat. I mean, just get the parents together and say look, here's my vision on this year. Here's the things that I feel that are important. Here's where I think you can help. Here's where I think we need to be able to work through and not build walls but build bridges. You're going to want to watch your kid play. Everybody wants their kid to play. Only nine can play at a time. You know, and I cheer I'm going to try and have a certain five-man rotation.
Speaker 2:We're going to work kids out of the bullpen. I'm going to try and get everybody involved and engaged, because nobody wants to just practice and not play. However, nine will start the game. How we work from there. We'll have conversations throughout the year where I see your son or your daughter where they fit in on the program. Because I want to be authentic and I want to be real with you. I don't want to try and trick you and I know parents these days they almost feel like they're a general manager because of the financial investment involved in sports. You know well, I'm paying this and I'm paying that, and Johnny needs this or Joey needs that. Well, I do think honest communication is best. And then I do think there's times you got to understand that you may not like the way it is right now, or your son might not, but don't be a self-fulfilling prophet. Make sure that you encourage him when he's not playing. I could use your help then, because there's going to be an opportunity where he's going to get a chance or she's going to get a chance, and if they've not worked, if they've not prepared, that chance may be fleeting, but if they have and they can move upon it.
Speaker 2:One of the things I share with early groups, young groups right now is I revisit the fact that Tom Brady wasn't the starting quarterback at University of Michigan Bob Greasy's kid, brian Greasy was. I mean, there's all kinds of people that you share with parents. Look, this guy didn't start, but he was prepared and ready when an opportunity came along. High school's short, it's three years. Everybody wants to play, especially if they're a senior sometimes, and life's not fair, right, but the thing that is fair about life is it's unfair for everybody. And if you're a better baseball player, you're going to play more, and we want to make sure. I said I'm going to do everything I can to help your son be the best player they can be. That's my promise to you. I need your help along the way. If you're willing to give that, that's probably where I'd start.
Speaker 1:Well being someone that you know the amount of time that you've been around baseball. Are you more of an old school type of coach or did you grow with the analytics? How was your approach to it?
Speaker 2:Well, no, I mean old school. Definitely, the game that I grew up with, the game that I fell in love with, isn't being played right now, but that's okay. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. The game started to pivot in different directions, probably my last five years in Pittsburgh. The first pivot was after I got fired in Colorado in 2009, and I went to work for the MLB Network the second half of the season. I got to go back and have these pre-show meetings and all these kids and interns were working and grabbing statistics and these new group of statistics called analytics, and I started digging into some of that then, just understanding where I thought the game was headed. And not only was it headed there, it's landed there and it's set up tents there now. But I know the game's going to go on with or without me.
Speaker 2:If I want to be a part of the game, it goes back to being coachable. I needed to be coachable, I needed to learn new things and I was fortunate that when I got with the group in Pittsburgh, neil Huntington and Dan Fox were both analytically driven but also had some old school values. I was more old school driven, with some analytical values that I thought made sense. So we became a hybrid model together Because by saying that I share. I spoke at the I-70 coaches clinic last year. I spoke at the Colorado dugout coaches convention and I actually have a presentation that's called it's not old school versus new school, let's all be in school and I shared the importance of some old school values and some some of the importance of the new school, tech and the way they're looking at things and find, find that hybrid model that fits and everybody can work with and try and learn from one another. It goes back to being a hitting coach and then having young players that became these hitting gurus.
Speaker 2:They all have their own hitting coach. In the off season, I felt I was best served if I built a relationship, tried to build a bridge with their hitting guru rather than build a wall. We both want the same result for the player. We may have different thoughts and ideas how we're going to help him get there, but it can't be clandestine and it can't be leveraged, and it can't be opportunistic and it can't be selfish. So, right now where the game is, I've learned a lot in the last five years. Everything that's new doesn't mean it's good. It's been life. Life has gone that way for a long time. There are certain things I think that are new, that I really don't have a lot of time for. There are some things that are new that I go, wow, I wish I would have had that earlier. Um, so I'm learning as I go along. There's value in some of the analytics. There's a science to it which is hard to argue, and one thing about numbers is numbers come without emotions and humans have emotions and humans can be messy, and so there is a side of the numbers that I kind of lean into because they're unemotional.
Speaker 2:I, as a coach, can have recency bias. I might like one player more than the other. You know we can say we need to like them all the same. Yeah, we need to do you. I don't know it was hard for me to like every player the same, but I tried. And then the players you like a little bit more than the other players, you know well, yeah, he had a pretty good day when in reality he probably had an okay day. The kid that I didn't maybe like as much. If he had an okay day I probably thought, oh, he was below average. Today it's called recency bias. You know, what happened lately is what you hold on to. So I'm still learning. I'd like to think I'm in school and I'm not so much old school that I can't appreciate new school.
Speaker 1:Well for the MLB fan that's out there. Should Major League Baseball make changes to give the small market teams an even playing field, because it's tough to compete with the Dodgers and the Yankees.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and neither one's won a World Series in how many years? The Dodgers won the 2020 World Series COVID year and it's not the same, but they won a World Series. The Yankees haven't been there in a long time. There's arguments on both sides of this fence. Look at what the job Tampa Bay's done with the small market. Year after year after year, milwaukee's come up and done a pretty nice job. There's always a pop-up team or two. Cleveland continues to be impressive in that small market Until they do it.
Speaker 2:You've got to figure it out. The NBA has a different level. You know. Everybody talks about a ceiling. I I thought maybe raising the floor where certain teams every team had to spend at least the same amount of money and make it 100 million to raise the floor rather than have a ceiling. Um, but they haven't done it. And I don't know if you know, the owners keep paying top dollar for free agent players. So why would you think that's going to go away? There's just too many oxymorons. What I mean? There's too many conflicting things that go on. People say this, but then they do that. So until we can get everybody on the same page, it makes it hard for small market teams. You look at what they did in Florida. What they're doing in Florida now is hard. Pittsburgh, it's been hard for a few years. We had a nice run for a time, but the teams and tenants, what's going on in Oakland has been hard. You'd like to think there's a better way, but we haven't seemed to come up with one yet.
Speaker 1:Well, I ask this question of every guest that I have on the podcast do you hate losing or love winning?
Speaker 2:it's a great question. Um, now, yeah, I mean hand to the flame. If I had to give you one answer which is pretty unfair, uh, I would say I love winning. However, the really, you're one of the first first guests to say that the love of winning.
Speaker 1:I would say I love winning.
Speaker 2:Really, you're one of the first guests to say that the love of winning. Sometimes so many things get sacrificed along the way Health, family, truthfully, lessons learned, because I would tell my players there's winning and there's learning. You only lose when you don't learn anything. We could have a bad game, but if we came up with a couple nuggets on things that we can learn to do better, that's not losing. Pain brings immediate attention to a specific area, and losing usually does that. It brings immediate attention to a specific area. But I think there's got to be a calmness to understanding why you lost. And what I've always tried to share with my players, coaches and teams is if you meet the demands of the game as they present themselves, you put yourself in a better position to win the game.
Speaker 2:If you do not meet the demands of the game and you know what I mean by demands of the game runner at third less than two outs. Runner at second no outs. First pitch strikes, two out walks, all the little things that come together that you know leaving runners on base and not scoring them One of the things I'll jump backwards, just tell you. One of the things I don't appreciate about analytics is that they've lessened and cheapened the value of a run batted in. But I'll tell you this there's 15 major league games a night, 30 teams and half the managers that lose. Every one of them will bring up in his post-game conference we had opportunities to score and we didn't. The run batted in is a valuable number. It always has been, it always will be in my mind, and the losing part of it. You don't meet the demands of the game, and when you continually don't meet those demands, you put yourself in a bad position to win. So long answer, but I do love winning.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, as a player who was the best pitcher that you faced.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I faced so many Cy Young award winners. Ron Guidry in 78 may have been the best pitcher I faced. I faced Nolan Ryan multiple times, he was a really good pitcher Jim Palmer, cy Young and then the one guy that owned me probably a lot of people won't recognize the name, but Shane Raleigh. I think I had one hit in about 40 lifetime at bats off Shane Raleigh. He was a left-handed pitcher, a starter, a reliever, american League, national League. Some guys you just don't hit, and he was one of the guys I just didn't hit. But then there were some guys that I hit pretty well. So go figure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, to finish up, what is your best story as a player or manager? Something that's funny, maybe an ejection with an umpire, or something like that.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll give you a funny one and I'll leave the umpire's name out of it. But I think I always get drawn to this one because some people would ask me well, as a manager, did you ever get thrown out on purpose? Did you ever go out there and try and stir up your team or make a stand or do this? And I'll say, you know, yes, there were times when maybe I wanted to spark some energy or light a fuse. You know the male testosterone thing or the ego gets involved. We weren't playing well. We'd had the same crew for four games. It was a four-game series, the last of the four days. Every game we got thrown a beating. We didn't pitch it, we didn't hit it, we couldn't catch it In the fourth game. I've had enough, I've seen enough and I run out there.
Speaker 2:In about the third inning I start letting one guy have it and it's a veteran umpire. He's been around the block, we've known each other for a long time. He looked at me and he goes okay, let me stop you right there, cause you can say whatever you want to say. You can call me any name you want. I'm not throwing you out. I've had to watch this horrible baseball for four days. You're going to have to watch it for four days too. You're going to watch all nine innings. You can go say what you want, I'm tired of. And he got into me. You can't pitch it, you can't throw it, and you're going to come out here and yell at me Go ahead. I went back to my dugout just to answer my bench coach. He goes. Well, what happened? I thought you were going to get thrown out. I go, dude. He declawed me. He took the claws right off me. He just said we're so bad that he might not throw me out.
Speaker 1:He wanted me. Amazing, that's great. My only interaction I've ever had with a major league umpire that actually had a disagreement with was Larry Barnett and he actually they named a park after him near where I live and it's a league team that we played. They played their games there where I live and it's a league team that we played. They played their games there and he was very particular about his field and he would come there and he would just yell at you If you he didn't like the way you took infield or whatever, and I just was not having a great day and he started, started in on me and then he come down to the fence and and I made a comment about the 75 world series where he the questionable call that he made and with Pete Rose and everything, and I just boy he, I was like he was not happy and I was like that's the closest I'll ever come to being on a major league field arguing with an umpire.
Speaker 2:How about it? Hey, before we go, though, I'm going to make one comment, because I'm going to have to run here. Yes, sir, and this is a parting shot, it's a cheap shot, but you've only got one good-looking helmet in that photo behind you, and that's that Michigan Wolverine helmet Go blue.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, there we go. I think there we go. I'm hoping things will change. Yeah, I graduated from Ohio State. Bless your heart. Yeah, we're hoping things will change this year.
Speaker 2:Well, it's been a fun ride.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, everybody, it's Clint, Hurdle and Coach. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to do this with me. I wish you the best. If you could, I read something where you put out a newsletter where you have 7,000 subscribers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Ken, I have a daily email. I actually have two daily emails I send out. One's a devotional and they're from faith-based pastors or priests sometimes just regular guys, Tony Dungy faith-based encouragement. And then I have a leadership encouragement, a coaching encouragement, one that I put out. They're both daily. They go six days a week. I'm like Truett Cathay I take Sundays off. There's no emails on sundays today, arrest. But all you got to do is type into your browser clint hurdlecom. Clint hurdlecom. It'll take you to the small website. It's easy to. All you got to do is type in your email address and then hit one of the hit devotional or hit encouragement, or hit the button for both and you'll start receiving them the next day. But but it's clinturdlecom. Over 7,000 people have subscribed. I've been doing it since 09, going to my 15th year, and just a host of different authors and people that encourage me and people I learn from.
Speaker 1:Great. Well, like I said, thanks again, I really do appreciate it and you know I hope you really enjoy your summer and and, whatever you do, keep staying around baseball because you're you're too good to not be around the game of baseball.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate it, Ken. I'm glad we got to pull this together. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 1:All right. Thank you, sir, and take care. Bye-bye, bye-bye. Today's episode of the Athlete One Podcast was powered by the netting professionals improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707. That's 844-620-2707.
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